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	<title>Comments on: Are Ajax and Accessibility mutually exclusive?</title>
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	<link>http://www.marcozehe.de/2008/04/29/are-ajax-and-accessibility-mutually-exclusive/</link>
	<description>Musings, tips and tricks about the accessible software world</description>
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		<title>By: JavaScript Reference Links &#124; kabayview.com</title>
		<link>http://www.marcozehe.de/2008/04/29/are-ajax-and-accessibility-mutually-exclusive/comment-page-1/#comment-234315</link>
		<dc:creator>JavaScript Reference Links &#124; kabayview.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Oct 2011 14:58:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marcozehe.de/?p=26#comment-234315</guid>
		<description>[...]  Are Ajax and Accessibility Mutually Exclusive? &#8211; Marco Zehe [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  Are Ajax and Accessibility Mutually Exclusive? &#8211; Marco Zehe [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: The WEBs Greatest How-to Toolkits! &#124; 7Wins.eu</title>
		<link>http://www.marcozehe.de/2008/04/29/are-ajax-and-accessibility-mutually-exclusive/comment-page-1/#comment-1648</link>
		<dc:creator>The WEBs Greatest How-to Toolkits! &#124; 7Wins.eu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 07:13:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marcozehe.de/?p=26#comment-1648</guid>
		<description>[...] WordPress how-to: Theme OptionsRandom JS Toolkit &#124; cPanelConfig - cPanel server configuration guideMarco&#8217;s accessibility blog </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] WordPress how-to: Theme OptionsRandom JS Toolkit | cPanelConfig &#8211; cPanel server configuration guideMarco&#8217;s accessibility blog</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: mutually exclusive</title>
		<link>http://www.marcozehe.de/2008/04/29/are-ajax-and-accessibility-mutually-exclusive/comment-page-1/#comment-1297</link>
		<dc:creator>mutually exclusive</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 20:43:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marcozehe.de/?p=26#comment-1297</guid>
		<description>[...]  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Edward</title>
		<link>http://www.marcozehe.de/2008/04/29/are-ajax-and-accessibility-mutually-exclusive/comment-page-1/#comment-1233</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 16:24:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marcozehe.de/?p=26#comment-1233</guid>
		<description>This article is a nice summary of the current state of Web Design accessibility and usability development. I really enjoyed it, thanks!

- Edward</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This article is a nice summary of the current state of Web Design accessibility and usability development. I really enjoyed it, thanks!</p>
<p>- Edward</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Isofarro</title>
		<link>http://www.marcozehe.de/2008/04/29/are-ajax-and-accessibility-mutually-exclusive/comment-page-1/#comment-805</link>
		<dc:creator>Isofarro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 May 2008 08:12:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marcozehe.de/?p=26#comment-805</guid>
		<description>Chris,

&quot;let me know where the best places to go are to learn more, and people to talk to.&quot;

For Accessible Ajax (and ARIA), Steve Faulkner and Gez Lemon of the Paciello Group have been doing some impressive work in demonstrating how to create accessible ajax applications.

In particular, in his Accessibility 2.0 presentation last week, Steve Faulkner took Twitter and fixed a large number of problems first with just plain old Ajax, and also demonstrated working solutions using ARIA. In effect, ARIA looked so easy in comparison to plain old Ajax.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris,</p>
<p>&#8220;let me know where the best places to go are to learn more, and people to talk to.&#8221;</p>
<p>For Accessible Ajax (and ARIA), Steve Faulkner and Gez Lemon of the Paciello Group have been doing some impressive work in demonstrating how to create accessible ajax applications.</p>
<p>In particular, in his Accessibility 2.0 presentation last week, Steve Faulkner took Twitter and fixed a large number of problems first with just plain old Ajax, and also demonstrated working solutions using ARIA. In effect, ARIA looked so easy in comparison to plain old Ajax.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chris Mills (Opera)</title>
		<link>http://www.marcozehe.de/2008/04/29/are-ajax-and-accessibility-mutually-exclusive/comment-page-1/#comment-764</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Mills (Opera)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:48:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marcozehe.de/?p=26#comment-764</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the further information Marco - I&#039;ll have look into ARIA more, and think about publishing some useful stuff on dev.opera, to get the message out there. My e-mail is cmills [at]  opera [dot] com - let me know where the best places to go are to learn more, and people to talk to. I&#039;ve already started digesting the W3C site.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the further information Marco &#8211; I&#8217;ll have look into ARIA more, and think about publishing some useful stuff on dev.opera, to get the message out there. My e-mail is cmills [at]  opera [dot] com &#8211; let me know where the best places to go are to learn more, and people to talk to. I&#8217;ve already started digesting the W3C site.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Marco</title>
		<link>http://www.marcozehe.de/2008/04/29/are-ajax-and-accessibility-mutually-exclusive/comment-page-1/#comment-763</link>
		<dc:creator>Marco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:28:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marcozehe.de/?p=26#comment-763</guid>
		<description>Hi Chris!

First of all, thanks for your insightful reply! Let me pick on one particular point that I think needs a bit more clarification. You wrote:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Also, ARIA is a solution for the future, but there currently isn&#039;t widespread support for ARIA, so for the present, we need to work with what we&#039;ve got, which involves trying to get developers to work more responsibly, and trying to speed initiatives like ARIA along to the point where use can become more widespead.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I would like to point out that, nobody is losing anything by implementing ARIA today instead of waiting for more widespread adoption. It may be a while until IE 8 is out, for example. Yet the adoption of ARIA today will give those with capable browsers and screen readers the enhanced accessibility today. As more and more browsers and screen readers will be released that support ARIA, those will automatically start working better with the ARIA-enriched solutions. And older browsers and screen readers won&#039;t notice a difference: ARIA is designed in a fashion that is unintrusive: If it&#039;s there, and the client can use it, it will be used. Otherwise, it will be ignored.

The message to Ajax web developers has to be: Don&#039;t wait until date x or release y have happened, but start adopting ARIA today. You won&#039;t lose anything in the investment, on the contrary! It is an investment into the future if ARIA is being adopted today. Especially with new solutions, putting it in right at the start is much less of a problem than having to refit stuff later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Chris!</p>
<p>First of all, thanks for your insightful reply! Let me pick on one particular point that I think needs a bit more clarification. You wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>Also, ARIA is a solution for the future, but there currently isn&#8217;t widespread support for ARIA, so for the present, we need to work with what we&#8217;ve got, which involves trying to get developers to work more responsibly, and trying to speed initiatives like ARIA along to the point where use can become more widespead.</p></blockquote>
<p>I would like to point out that, nobody is losing anything by implementing ARIA today instead of waiting for more widespread adoption. It may be a while until IE 8 is out, for example. Yet the adoption of ARIA today will give those with capable browsers and screen readers the enhanced accessibility today. As more and more browsers and screen readers will be released that support ARIA, those will automatically start working better with the ARIA-enriched solutions. And older browsers and screen readers won&#8217;t notice a difference: ARIA is designed in a fashion that is unintrusive: If it&#8217;s there, and the client can use it, it will be used. Otherwise, it will be ignored.</p>
<p>The message to Ajax web developers has to be: Don&#8217;t wait until date x or release y have happened, but start adopting ARIA today. You won&#8217;t lose anything in the investment, on the contrary! It is an investment into the future if ARIA is being adopted today. Especially with new solutions, putting it in right at the start is much less of a problem than having to refit stuff later.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Chris Mills (Opera)</title>
		<link>http://www.marcozehe.de/2008/04/29/are-ajax-and-accessibility-mutually-exclusive/comment-page-1/#comment-762</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Mills (Opera)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:28:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marcozehe.de/?p=26#comment-762</guid>
		<description>Hi, Chris from Opera here - thanks for the response Marco. It was I who published Brothercake&#039;s article on dev.opera. I appreciate all the work you&#039;re doing on ARIA - it is a great initiative and will do wonders for Ajax/Accessibility issues. Opera are in full support of it. But I think some of your statements here are a little bit off, possibly because of the rant-ish tone of the article

First, we deliberately made it rant-ish, to make people sit up and listen - yes, progress in innovation is essential, and we can&#039;t stop Ajax, but then the article is not trying to say that (despite the title) - it is trying to make developers just sit up and think a little bit more responsibly about what they are doing. A lot of people in the centre of the web community are in tune with accessibility, but then again there are still a lot of people who are ignorant about it.

Also, ARIA is a solution for the future, but there currently isn&#039;t widespread support for ARIA, so for the present, we need to work with what we&#039;ve got, which involves trying to get developers to work more responsibly, and trying to speed initiatives like ARIA along to the point where use can become more widespead.

Also, Cake isn&#039;t using accessibility as the sole argument to rant against a technology he doesnâ€™t like - he has no problem with Ajax, but just feels that it is immature and should be used with more caution than we are currrently using it. He says this much.

To follow up on this article, I will soon be commissioning some authors to write some more articles exploring what can be done to use Ajax more responsibly, to make Ajax-driven applications more accessible in the here and now. 

Best regards,

Chris Mills</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Chris from Opera here &#8211; thanks for the response Marco. It was I who published Brothercake&#8217;s article on dev.opera. I appreciate all the work you&#8217;re doing on ARIA &#8211; it is a great initiative and will do wonders for Ajax/Accessibility issues. Opera are in full support of it. But I think some of your statements here are a little bit off, possibly because of the rant-ish tone of the article</p>
<p>First, we deliberately made it rant-ish, to make people sit up and listen &#8211; yes, progress in innovation is essential, and we can&#8217;t stop Ajax, but then the article is not trying to say that (despite the title) &#8211; it is trying to make developers just sit up and think a little bit more responsibly about what they are doing. A lot of people in the centre of the web community are in tune with accessibility, but then again there are still a lot of people who are ignorant about it.</p>
<p>Also, ARIA is a solution for the future, but there currently isn&#8217;t widespread support for ARIA, so for the present, we need to work with what we&#8217;ve got, which involves trying to get developers to work more responsibly, and trying to speed initiatives like ARIA along to the point where use can become more widespead.</p>
<p>Also, Cake isn&#8217;t using accessibility as the sole argument to rant against a technology he doesnâ€™t like &#8211; he has no problem with Ajax, but just feels that it is immature and should be used with more caution than we are currrently using it. He says this much.</p>
<p>To follow up on this article, I will soon be commissioning some authors to write some more articles exploring what can be done to use Ajax more responsibly, to make Ajax-driven applications more accessible in the here and now. </p>
<p>Best regards,</p>
<p>Chris Mills</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Steve Lee</title>
		<link>http://www.marcozehe.de/2008/04/29/are-ajax-and-accessibility-mutually-exclusive/comment-page-1/#comment-761</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 10:45:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marcozehe.de/?p=26#comment-761</guid>
		<description>Great post Marco. And lets get good examples and snippets in those places that the cut &#039;n&#039; paste merchants go. That way the good gets spread not the bad. That&#039;s not to suggest that good education and learning of the principles is unimportant, It&#039;s vital for a fairly complex subject like this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post Marco. And lets get good examples and snippets in those places that the cut &#8216;n&#8217; paste merchants go. That way the good gets spread not the bad. That&#8217;s not to suggest that good education and learning of the principles is unimportant, It&#8217;s vital for a fairly complex subject like this.</p>
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